033: Interview with Rick Doblin, Alex Grey & Allyson Grey at Burning Man 2016 by Joe

Thank you so much for listening to Entheogen and for supporting us on Patreon and by telling your friends.

At Burning Man in 2014, we were inspired to create Entheogen (after a talk with Meriana Dinkova). Since then, we’ve released about one-and-a-half episodes per month.

On this, our two-year anniversary since posting the first episode, we are beyond overjoyed to share with you our very first “on location” recording, and the first time we’ve all recorded in person together –

Burning Man 2016.

We had the great pleasure and honor to speak with not one, not just two, but three pioneers and key drivers in the movement to mainstream psychedelic medicine:

Alex Grey & Allyson Grey, co-founders of CoSM, the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors (CoSM.org).

Rick Doblin, founder and executive director of MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS.org).

We thank deeply all three of our esteemed guests for their time and generosity of spirit.

We’d also like to thank Dr. Bronner’s ReFOAMation Village for their hospitality and Alex & Allyson for graciously hosting the recording in their RV.


  • Alex & Allyson Grey’s take on the state of the movement to mainstream psychedelics

  • Has non-violence hamstrung our progress?

  • Alex & Allyson’s $2000 fine for cannabis possession upon entering Burning Man

  • Alex mentions Roland Griffiths’ reprisal of Walter Pahnke’s Good Friday Experiment at Johns Hopkins University: Hopkins Scientists Show Hallucinogen In Mushrooms Creates Universal “Mystical” Experience

  • Rick Doblin discusses the improved relationship with Law Enforcement and the Burning Man organization including better integration of the Zendo Project at Burning Man 2016

  • Rick quotes Einstein: “There’s no conflict between science and religion. There’s a conflict between bad science and bad religion.”

  • Rick talks about how he sees psychedelics being integrated into society in 25 years

  • Rick discusses the “beautiful breakup” he had while on MDA

  • Rick compares MDA to MDMA

  • Allyson discusses her personal experiences with MDA and MDMA

  • Alex, Allyson, and Rick discuss their milestones this year: 20 years since the founding of CoSM and 30 years since the founding of MAPS

  • Rick describes building a handball court at New College of Florida, overlooking the nudist colony where his girlfriend was lifeguarding

  • Rick discusses the first responders and veterans enrolled in the MDMA for PTSD study (“not just for hippies at Burning Man”)

  • Cannabis as a neuroprotective, anti-tumor agent (and it makes you feel better too)

  • Carl Sagan’s friendship with Lester Grinspoon

  • Carl Sagan’s secret use of cannabis for 40 years

  • Psychedelics and schizophrenia

  • Rick’s idea to create a “drug license” system

  • Time to “come out of the psychedelic closet”

  • MAPS organizes Global Psychedelic Dinners to encourage “coming out” about our psychedelic use

  • BuildEntheon.com

Mid-2016 Listener Update by Joe

Thanks to you, proud listeners of Entheogen, we broke 6,000 subscribers in July 2016!

Your support makes the show possible. We invite you to show your support by telling your friends, liking us on Facebook, and tweeting about the show!

If you're feeling extra supportive, will you make a monthly pledge on Patreon to help us keep putting out more great episodes of Entheogen?

Thank you and here's to the next 6,000!

031: Dr. Julie Holland by Joe

This is Entheogen. Talk about tools for generating the divine within.

Today is June 6, 2016, and we are talking with Dr. Julie Holland, psychopharmacologist, psychiatrist, and best-selling author of several books.

Find the notes and links for this and other episodes at EntheogenShow.com. Sign up to receive an email when we release a new episode. Follow us @EntheogenShow on Twitter and like EntheogenShow on FaceBook. Thanks for listening.


  • Julie’s origin story: how did she get interested in this area of research

  • Julie took MDMA with Rick Doblin on the last day it was legal: June 30th, 1985

  • “Cancer of Yang” – Jeremy Wolff’s phrase (Julie’s husband)

  • Vaginal administration of cannabis to avoid the liver from edible ingestion, 11-OH-THC

  • Edibles: Julie emphasizes the need to wait two hours before re-evaluating dosage

  • Overmedication of society

    • “Do you ever overeat and then feel bad about it?” Big pharma’s answer: strong, long-lasting amphetamine daily.

  • Medical and Recreational Entheogens

    • “Recreation is therapeutic”

  • THC, CBD and Terpenes

  • Some people don’t want to get high from their medicine.

  • Munchies mitigation tip: don’t start eating.

  • Punishment doesn’t work with addiction

  • Pornography and the “new normal”: no pubic hair vs. “very bushy” 70’s

Julie’s Books: