033: Interview with Rick Doblin, Alex Grey & Allyson Grey at Burning Man 2016 by Joe

Thank you so much for listening to Entheogen and for supporting us on Patreon and by telling your friends.

At Burning Man in 2014, we were inspired to create Entheogen (after a talk with Meriana Dinkova). Since then, we’ve released about one-and-a-half episodes per month.

On this, our two-year anniversary since posting the first episode, we are beyond overjoyed to share with you our very first “on location” recording, and the first time we’ve all recorded in person together –

Burning Man 2016.

We had the great pleasure and honor to speak with not one, not just two, but three pioneers and key drivers in the movement to mainstream psychedelic medicine:

Alex Grey & Allyson Grey, co-founders of CoSM, the Chapel of Sacred Mirrors (

Rick Doblin, founder and executive director of MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (

We thank deeply all three of our esteemed guests for their time and generosity of spirit.

We’d also like to thank Dr. Bronner’s ReFOAMation Village for their hospitality and Alex & Allyson for graciously hosting the recording in their RV.


  • Alex & Allyson Grey’s take on the state of the movement to mainstream psychedelics

  • Has non-violence hamstrung our progress?

  • Alex & Allyson’s $2000 fine for cannabis possession upon entering Burning Man

  • Alex mentions Roland Griffiths’ reprisal of Walter Pahnke’s Good Friday Experiment at Johns Hopkins University: Hopkins Scientists Show Hallucinogen In Mushrooms Creates Universal “Mystical” Experience

  • Rick Doblin discusses the improved relationship with Law Enforcement and the Burning Man organization including better integration of the Zendo Project at Burning Man 2016

  • Rick quotes Einstein: “There’s no conflict between science and religion. There’s a conflict between bad science and bad religion.”

  • Rick talks about how he sees psychedelics being integrated into society in 25 years

  • Rick discusses the “beautiful breakup” he had while on MDA

  • Rick compares MDA to MDMA

  • Allyson discusses her personal experiences with MDA and MDMA

  • Alex, Allyson, and Rick discuss their milestones this year: 20 years since the founding of CoSM and 30 years since the founding of MAPS

  • Rick describes building a handball court at New College of Florida, overlooking the nudist colony where his girlfriend was lifeguarding

  • Rick discusses the first responders and veterans enrolled in the MDMA for PTSD study (“not just for hippies at Burning Man”)

  • Cannabis as a neuroprotective, anti-tumor agent (and it makes you feel better too)

  • Carl Sagan’s friendship with Lester Grinspoon

  • Carl Sagan’s secret use of cannabis for 40 years

  • Psychedelics and schizophrenia

  • Rick’s idea to create a “drug license” system

  • Time to “come out of the psychedelic closet”

  • MAPS organizes Global Psychedelic Dinners to encourage “coming out” about our psychedelic use



Update: this episode has been remastered since the original release.

031: Dr. Julie Holland by Joe

This is Entheogen. Talk about tools for generating the divine within.

Today is June 6, 2016, and we are talking with Dr. Julie Holland, psychopharmacologist, psychiatrist, and best-selling author of several books.

Find the notes and links for this and other episodes at Sign up to receive an email when we release a new episode. Follow us @EntheogenShow on Twitter and like EntheogenShow on FaceBook. Thanks for listening.


  • Julie’s origin story: how did she get interested in this area of research

  • Julie took MDMA with Rick Doblin on the last day it was legal: June 30th, 1985

  • “Cancer of Yang” – Jeremy Wolff’s phrase (Julie’s husband)

  • Vaginal administration of cannabis to avoid the liver from edible ingestion, 11-OH-THC

  • Edibles: Julie emphasizes the need to wait two hours before re-evaluating dosage

  • Overmedication of society

    • “Do you ever overeat and then feel bad about it?” Big pharma’s answer: strong, long-lasting amphetamine daily.

  • Medical and Recreational Entheogens

    • “Recreation is therapeutic”

  • THC, CBD and Terpenes

  • Some people don’t want to get high from their medicine.

  • Munchies mitigation tip: don’t start eating.

  • Punishment doesn’t work with addiction

  • Pornography and the “new normal”: no pubic hair vs. “very bushy” 70’s

Julie’s Books:

029: Build Entheon with Alex and Allyson Grey by Joe

This is Entheogen. Talk about tools for generating the divine within.

Today is May 24 2016, and we are discussing Building Entheon with Alex and Allyson Grey.

Find the notes and links for this and other episodes at Sign up to receive an email when we release a new episode. Follow us @EntheogenShow on Twitter and like EntheogenShow on FaceBook. Thanks for listening.


  • Entheon is a place to discover the divine within
  • Why build a psychedelic temple?
  • – Almost to the stretch goal of $200K
  • Entheon is a 12,000 sq ft building, three floors including a gallery of international visionary art
  • Prehistoric artifacts document early cultures who made art and had a relationship with entheogens
  • “It’s important for our psychedelic sacramental culture to have evidence that in our generation there were people who valued love, unity, spirituality, and peace over commerce and war.” - Allyson Grey
  • LSD is derived from ergot fungus, which shares similar characteristics with psilocybin mushrooms.
  • Allyson recommends Robert Barnhart’s movie, A New Understanding: The Science of Psilocybin. (We have interviewed the producer and discussed the film on Entheogen.)
  • Visit to support the campaign! Check out the amazing original works of art and other rewards.

015: Burning Man by Joe

This is Entheogen. We talk about tools for generating the divine within. It's September 28, 2015. We're talking about Burning Man.

On the first anniversary of Entheogen, to kick off Season 2, we decide to discuss the cultural phenomenon of Burning Man, where the show was conceived.

  • Kevin wonders if setting the stage for a more intentional journey – gathering a group, making a circle, and expressing intentions collectively – empowered him to go further this time
  • Kevin shares the itinerary of his (initially) "hard trip" at Burning Man – well into the spiritual realm, dosage-wise – revisiting and redeeming the journey he discussed in Entheogen 004: Bad Trips, and transcending anxiety and fear to experience bliss
  • The ground as a point of reference: "grounding"
  • Brad and Kevin re-play their Burning Man 2015 experience in the video game tent at Center Camp – the simple controls belying the mind-fuck of "level two" joystick inversion and character mitosis
  • Brad reviews three more excellent talks by Meriana Dinkova at Burning Man 2015
  • Entheogen 006: Interview with Meriana Dinkova Navigating Altered States
  • The feeling/vibe of Burning Man
  • Decommodification
  • The importance of the crazy clothing aspect to Burning Man, a unifying force – "furs" as the eleventh principle
  • The 10 Principles of Burning Man